by Claus Larsen
A while ago, I frequented the #astrology channel on Undernet a couple of times. I began to ask a lot of questions about the nature of astrology, and was amazed to find a multitude of answers. Nobody seemed to agree on anything – except that no matter what procedure was used, astrology worked. This single-mindedness showed as the conversations went on. No matter what argument I used, I was shouted down with either “but it works!”, that I was narrow-minded because I wouldn’t merely accept that it did, or – when all else failed – personal attacks on my integrity.
I was constantly pressed to give up my birth data. They were eager to find reasons for my “behaviour”, and to persuade me that I was wrong about astrology. Even though I repeatedly refused to give my birth data, nobody respected this. So, I devised a little test: I accepted, if the interpretations of my horoscope was presented to me in private channels, for later comparison. The three astrologers who agreed to do this were Goof-ball, Ghia and ma-bell.
It is telling that all three astrologers started with firm statements of already known data. Then, it got muddled: Goof-ball claimed that I had a romantic opening in April 1999 (“99% sure!”), whereas Ghia and ma-bell completely missed this ground-shaking event. These “transits” can happen just about anytime, and they are usually “expansive”, a term used to describe any event other than “dreary”.
Both Goof-ball and ma-bell requested feedback from me, whereas Ghia didn’t, unfortunately with the result that Ghia was most off target. It seemed that feedback was so important, ma-bell even dropped out of the conversation when she didn’t get enough.
Here are the three sessions, with my comments. I gave the following birth data: April 23, 1968, Pendleton, New York. No birth time was available.
From these three astrologers you will see three very different interpretations. Only previously known data are correct, everything else is wrong. The birth data I gave wasn’t mine, but that of Timothy McVeigh, the “Oklahoma bomber”, killing 168 people on April 19th, 1995. Even so, it doesn’t even fit him!
<Goof-ball> you’re quite shy with the opposite sex
<Me> go on
<Goof-ball> self-effacing in some ways
<Me> that goes for most people, I’d say
<Goof-ball> very mental/intellectual
<Goof-ball> you identify with your mind very strongly
<Goof-ball> you’re very vulnerable emotionally, afraid of being teased or humiliated
<Goof-ball> it goes for some people
<Goof-ball> I would guess most models identify with their looks
<Me> try to aim for what is mostly “me” and not generic statements
<Goof-ball> and most athletes with their strength
<Goof-ball> as opposed to physical
<Goof-ball> as far as identity
<Goof-ball> curious, talative
<Me> go on
<Goof-ball> what the hell do you want me to tell you? You didn’t give me your birthtime, I’m giving you what I have to work with
<Me> ok ok!!
So far, nothing but generic statements, mixed with what Goof-ball already knew from our conversations in the channel. I have no idea why Goof-ball suddenly felt threatened.
<Me> and my future? or aren’t you that kind of astrologer?
<Goof-ball> if you cannot recognize basic behavioral/psychological
differences between various people then it all sounds like “generic” statements
<Goof-ball> as far as future, you definitely need a birthtime for anything remotely accurate
This was in dispute by other members of the channel. Ghia said that you cannot predict the future at all. Apparently, there was a vast split here.
<Goof-ball> hold on a sec
<Goof-ball> I’ll give you a date
<Goof-ball> did you have something romantic open up in your life in April of 1999?
<Goof-ball> because I see a transit that indicates that you would have
It would be hard to imagine anything romantic happening to Timothy McVeigh at the time he was in jail for blowing up 168 people to smithereens.
<Me> how probable would that be? Percentage?
<Goof-ball> I don’t understand your question
<Goof-ball> did you or did you not?
<Goof-ball> it’s a boolena answer
<Me> why do you need that information?
<Goof-ball> I don’t need it
<Goof-ball> you’re the one that wanted the reading
Why would an astrologer need feedback? Isn’t the chart enough?
<Me> k – I would say No – no romantic opening in april 1999
<Me> not that I know of, of course….
<Goof-ball> nothing happened in april of 99
<Me> nothing romantic
<Me> if not romantic, then what?
<Goof-ball> do you recognize anything of importance that has happened in your life ever?
<Goof-ball> or is it one dreary blur?
This is probably the most safe prediction you can ever make about a person’s life. Nobody will ever admit that one’s life is a dreary blur. But why ask at all? If something not-so-dreary happened, wouldn’t it show in the horoscope?
<Me> oh, there has been moments. Can you give me a time?
<Goof-ball> you didn’t even have an opportunity for anything romantic that you didn’t take?
<Goof-ball> April 1999
<Me> nothing romantic happened in april 1999
<Goof-ball> no-one of the opposite sex even remotely entered the picture
<Goof-ball> you’re lying, about 99% definitely
When not responding positively, I was accused of lying. Nice way of proving you are right!
<Me> but I’ll tell you something: Something very profound DID happen in april 1999 🙂
<Goof-ball> of course
I just had to dangle a bait. Sorry 🙂
<Goof-ball> that transit happens once every 12 years
<Goof-ball> but I don’t know your birthtime
<Goof-ball> so I couldn’t guess which area of life it took place in
No birth time was available, so we have a fuzzy area here. Fair enough.
<Goof-ball> but typically, regardless of area of life, there’s opportunity for romance
<Goof-ball> it’s an “expansive” transit
<Me> you mean, in my near future?
<Goof-ball> I mean during that transit
However, no matter how fuzzy it is, romance is always in sight. The possibility of getting laid is of course always tempting!
<Goof-ball> you make things very difficult: you won’t give your birthtime, and you’re very hidden as is
<Me> I can’t give it – I don’t know it
<Goof-ball> afraid to open up
<Me> why do you say that?
<Goof-ball> because that’s how you are
<Me> can you see that from my chart?
I was afraid to “open up”, mainly because I didn’t respond positively to the interpretation. “That’s how you are” is a pretty firm statement. It might have something to do with the fact that I had not been very “open” to astrology in the channel.
<Goof-ball> here’s another date of importance
<Goof-ball> of course
<Goof-ball> late Feb-early Mar 2000
<Me> of course what?
<Goof-ball> another “expansive” transit
<Me> what then?
<Goof-ball> of course I can see it from your chart
<Me> what happened 2000?
<Goof-ball> it was exapnsive, that’s all I can say
<Goof-ball> expansive in nature
<Me> can you elaborate a little?
<Goof-ball> I don’t know what area of life it took place in
<Goof-ball> no birthtime
At that time, McVeigh was in jail, awaiting execution. “Expansive” can mean anything, so it is solely up to me to interpret that.
<Me> what could it be?
<Me> examples, I mean – not my situation
<Goof-ball> it may be growth, you’re life becoming bigger in some way, generally a time of optimism
<Me> I see
<Me> that’s nice to hear
<Goof-ball> at least in some way
<Me> will this last?
<Goof-ball> it was in Feb-Mar 2000
<Goof-ball> it has ALREADY passed
<Me> ah, ok
<Me> sorry 🙂
You could argue that Timothy McVeigh’s life did become “bigger”, since he gained world-wide notoriety as a terrorist bomber. Somehow, I doubt that any “optimism” enters the picture, as he faced execution at that time.
<Goof-ball> if you mean, will what’s happening right now last?
<Goof-ball> two more weeks AT MOST
<Goof-ball> maybe less
<Me> then what happens?
<Goof-ball> so I suggest you enjoy it while you can
<Goof-ball> nothing happens
* intrum will enjoy life then
<Goof-ball> it peters out
Well….McVeigh did get a month’s reprieve due to an FBI screw-up. But less than 2 weeks? Way off!
<Goof-ball> here’s the thing
<Goof-ball> maybe you’ve noticed this about yourself
<Me> let’s hear
<Goof-ball> you go through long periods of isolation or sadness or hardship interespersed with feel-good periods
This was a safe bet: Nobody in the world can say: “This isn’t me”.
<Goof-ball> well, if you go back over your life, you’ll see that the happy periods come in cycles
<Me> of roughly equal size?
<Goof-ball> right now you’re in such a cycle
<Goof-ball> generally, yeah
Something must be causing these cycles. What? We are never told.
<Goof-ball> there may be exceptions
Ah, but of course.
<Me> how long do these cycles last (for me)?
<Goof-ball> I would guess it’s on the order of a week, give or take
<Goof-ball> really it could be a few days to almost 2 weeks
<Me> that’s a little vague, but ok 🙂
<Goof-ball> well, it depends on various factors
<Goof-ball> but I would generally guess they average to approximately a week
“Generally”, “approximately”, “guess”, “average”, “depends” and “give or take”. Nothing is for certain, everything is up for free interpretations.
<Goof-ball> anyway…you get the picture…or are you gonna seize on some minor detail as a way of justifying your skepticism? 🙂
Not some minor detail, but the whole interpretation: So far, it had been way off, and only previously known data had been right.
<Me> well…there are some discrepancies 🙂
<Goof-ball> well…there’s no exact date of birth
<Goof-ball> er, time
<Me> so – why try at all? 🙂
<Goof-ball> because you can see certain traits, still
<Goof-ball> you just can’t see which areas of life they apply in
A major contradiction here: Goofball clearly stated that romance could happen: “typically, regardless of area of life, there’s opportunity for romance”. Thus endeth the session.
<Ghia> scientific mind…mercury conjunct sun
<Me> oh, come on – you knew I had that! 🙂
<Me> but go on
<Ghia> romantic at heart, but prone to depressions
<Me> aren’t we all. And?
<Ghia> obsessive attachment to fairness and justice
<Ghia> but a tit-for-tat mentality
<Me> are you reading my horoscope or re-reading my comments? 🙂
<Ghia> doesn’t trust impulses
<Ghia> i am reading some basics from your horoscope, dear
<Me> ok, dear 🙂
<Me> go on
I have no way of knowing whether Ghia was telling the truth or she was biased. However, since this the first thing she mentioned, it is very likely that she was biased.
<Ghia> not too good at nurturing self…not too curagious either
<Ghia> but working on it !
Always opening up for a positive statement!
<Me> go on
<Ghia> has a vivid dream life…and some longings from that
<Me> go on
<Ghia> optimistic and cheerful…also generous
<Ghia> intelligent and ambitious
<Me> anything bad?
Sorry, I had to put in that line. 🙂
<Ghia> strong sex drive, ability to work hard
<Me> is a strong sex drive bad??
<Ghia> probably some shyness in relationships with women
<Ghia> nah, wasn’t looking for good or bad
So far, the statements had been nothing but good! No serious problems had been “revealed” so far. Having a strong sex drive is something we all want – with the exception of the Pope, of course…
<Ghia> probably some disappointments in that areena
<Me> ah, don’t we all have that? 🙂
<Me> well, maybe not you…I take it you are of the female persuasion?
<Ghia> when i say disappointments, i mean more than the average
<Me> you don’t mind that I ask for more specifics?
<Me> I mean: If in doubt, ask!
<Ghia> in fact i think there might be some blockages in expression of emotions, leading to frustration
This applies to everbody.
<Ghia> ask away
<Ghia> how are the others doing ?
<Me> it’s….interesting…to say the least. 🙂
<Ghia> oh good
<Ghia> you’re at least having the time of your life 😉
<Me> nah 🙂
<Me> anything else?
<Ghia> well, most important basics are the ones i mentioned : the scientific mindset, quick thought….versus the dreamy moon in pisces and neptune
This she already knew from our conversations in the channel, so nothing is proven here.
<Ghia> you could be quite intuitive if you opened up to it
<Me> what do you mean?
<Ghia> if you don’t let your mercury rule you all the time…allowed yourself to let the dreams invade your waking life
This was a blatant effort to get me to “switch sides”. The gift of being “intuitive” was being dangled in front of me, if only I “let the dreams invade my waking life” – whatever that means.
<Ghia> because this is an on-the-spot exercise, i’ll leave it at that
Let’s do that. So far, it had been way off, except where already known data was available.
<Me> you mean: you don’t have time to go deep….so to speak
<Me> there was a profound event, recently…can you tell me when and what?
<Ghia> it takes a bit more work to tie everything together in a better> way….this was all short stand-outs
<Ghia> for you, you mean ?
<Ghia> have to look into transits then…
<Me> please do
<Ghia> which i haven’t yet
<Me> you need info from me to get the transits?
<Ghia> hmmm…a transiting uranus square neptune period
<Ghia> so, that is quite recently
<Ghia> something about beliefs…maybe change of belief system
<Me> go on
Hardly, the astrological data being Timothy McVeigh’s. He was probably the last person on earth to change his mind about anything.
<Ghia> could be connected to a psychological crisis of serious impact
<Me> could be
<Me> can you say when?
<Ghia> you could even have experienced something of a high spiritual nature…like OBEs, ‘ghosts’, aliens..or something of that kind
McVeigh may have had an experience of a “high spiritual nature” when he blew up 168 people, but hardly anything about aliens from outer space.
<Ghia> i have to do a backwards calc to establish more accurate time
<Me> feel free
<Ghia> my guess is very recently….probably no more than 2-3 weeks
<Me> your “guess” means “you interpret”?
<Me> 2-3 weeks back, then
<Ghia> yes and yes
“Guess”, “probably”, “2-3 weeks”. That leaves room for just about anything.
<Me> I need a month: Did I have a transit sometime in 1999?
<Ghia> most probabley
<Ghia> question is how sinificant it was
<Me> pretty 🙂
Ah, but of course. Leave everything open for later interpretations. Ghia, however, never gets April as a significant time in “my” life (really McVeigh’s). It is surely the most important time of McVeigh’s life, and yet, only Goof-ball finds it – and interprets it very wrong!
Next was ma-bell, someone not very “open” to non-believers. It shows.
<ma-bell> you have uranus conjunct pluto in virgo
<ma-bell> trines mars…
<ma-bell> and that is exactly what you have been doing here
<ma-bell> you are picking apart somethiing you know nothing about..but you are good at it, if you would finda study or a mission….
<ma-bell> there would be no stopping you
<ma-bell> find a casue
<Me> no, no….only read my chart….no personal feelings here
Obviously, ma-bell was using previous knowledge to judge my personality. It went downhill from here.
<Me> you promised! 🙂
<ma-bell> that would be close to your heart and use that energy
<ma-bell> for good
<ma-bell> you can be good communicator
<ma-bell> I am reading your chart
<ma-bell> that is a reading
Nothing had shown any insight in “my” personality, only personal remarks, based on previous knowledge.
<Me> that is also an interpretation, right?
<ma-bell> I am trrying to tell you how to use your energies to assist you in life NOT allienate people
<ma-bell> the first part i said is very important
<ma-bell> great aspect if used wisely
<ma-bell> if not….
<ma-bell> very lonely
A not-so-subtle warning that I should mend my ways and behave accordingly to the astrologer’s credo. After all, who wants to be lonely?
<ma-bell> ok..i see it now
<ma-bell> you are intuitive
<ma-bell> and it scares you
<ma-bell> do you ever have feelings like you know things
<ma-bell> or see things
<Me> i am here
<Me> you mean, pre-cognitive?
<Me> I’ll keep that to myself…for now 🙂
<ma-bell> or just plain very damn intutive
<ma-bell> you are
<Me> if you say so
<ma-bell> it scares you
<ma-bell> for good
I was told that I can see into the future – something that Ghia said is not possible. Also, it was the reason that I acted so disruptive in the channel: I was scared of the pre-cognitive powers I have!
<ma-bell> what about your parnets
<Me> what about them?
<ma-bell> you ever feel like….a sacrifice
<Me> mabell: just tell me what you read from the charts….OK? 🙂
<ma-bell> I am reading the chart
Neither I or Timothy McVeigh were adopted. However, being adopted can make you feeling unwanted, insecure etc.
The conversation stopped here. I did not give any positive feedback, and ma-bell apparently didn’t find it gratifying.
Last was dchp. Not an interpretation, but telling nonetheless:
<dchp> sorry about cursing before…
<dchp> but you really tick me off 🙂
<Me> why do you guys react so strongly to simple questions?? 🙂
<dchp> cause you keep asking the same ones over and over
<dchp> in different sentence structure
<dchp> just be good at what you do, it’s important
<Me> but I get different answers, depending on who I ask. Don’t you find that odd??
<dchp> different minds, different answers
<Me> but the same result??
<dchp> what result
<Me> I have heard in this channel that no matter how the astrologer interprets the horoscope, it yields the sameresult
<dchp> not really
<dchp> astrology is really opinionated
<dchp> there’s no real fact on it, only experience
<dchp> and people try to place fact, on what they experience
<dchp> place = label… rather
<Me> i see
<dchp> anyways, good luck on your journeys, see ya later
This is very typical of astrologers: Always leave everything open to interpretation, never ever get down to business: Does it work or not? Ask one astrologer, get one answer. Ask another, get a different answer. Nothing is for certain.
Is this cheating? Hardly: I never stated that the birth data I gave were my own. I had repeatedly told the channel that I would never share my birth data. However – I did promise to provide a set of birth data. Which I did.
They fell for it, hook, line and sinker. Even though I was a declared non-believer and clearly stated my intentions of comparing the readings, they couldn’t resist and their vanity got the better of them. They wanted so much to be right, they couldn’t admit when they were wrong. When they discovered they had been had, they weren’t too pleased. The threats were many, the results were none. I never heard from anyone. These astrologers showed their true worth: Nothing they said came down to anything. Their readings or their threats.
A final word from Goof-ball:
<Goof-ball> “This individual is deeply in denial. He has difficulty recognizing his character flaws. He is passive aggressive to the extreme”
This I got when they found out. Before, it was all positive and open. And all I did was compare their readings. Oh, well…